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3 Day Program

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Robert Frederick · #1 · msg 17
2014-05-30 11:32 UTC
3 Day Program
First thing's first, these programs are not set in stone. You can and should make them work for you. Read Sheiko's statement on his programs if you haven't already. Your personal circumstances will determine what changes need to be made. It's generally a good idea not to change the overall structure though. That said at this training level these should work fairly well as is. Any needed changes will most likely be minor such as exercise selection and volume adjustments.

Now let's get to it. Boris has gone through the numbered spreadsheets widely available online and made them into coherent plans. It seems that the programs in the spreadsheets were collected from various places over the years. As such, they are collections and not really concrete training plans. On various forums people have tried to make sense of them and to distill actual training plans.

So now this has been done, by Boris himself. He's made two plans here: one for lifters over ~80kg and another for lifters under ~80kg (this is not an exact number, but it's a little more useful than just heavier and lighter). 


For lifters under 80kg  http://goo.gl/plRNpj

You'll use the following sequence: #37, #30*, #32. Note that #30 needed modifications in order for this to work so it is not the same as is available elsewhere.  The first two are preparatory periods and the last is the competition period.

Set your new records, take your lessons learned, then repeat the cycle with the needed adjustments.

For lifters over 80kg  http://goo.gl/qlb4vk

You'll use the following sequence: #37*, #31*, #32*. What does that little star "*" mean? Those have all been modified by Boris to make this work. Programs #30 and #31 had a couple issues that needed fixing. If you look at #37 before and after his modifications you can see what types of changes can be made. For one thing you'll notice the overall structure is intact. The volume has been reduced in many cases by reducing the number of warm up sets before the work sets. Boris said that it has been shown that 3 warm up sets are enough. Another thing that can be done is to move the additional exercises to after you have completed the main exercises.

Note: The graphs in the spreadsheets will update if you change the numbers of sets and reps or if you change the exercise names. If you add or delete rows though not all graphs will reflect those changes.
Last edit: 2014-06-05 11:50 UTC by Robert Frederick
luigipapino · #2 · msg 24
2014-06-05 11:29 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
First of all, thank you for the beatiful forum.

I think there is an error in the over_80kg_bw file. In the tab "#31" there isn't the column of the repetitions.

Thank you!
Blitzball · #3 · msg 26
2014-06-05 11:30 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
in over 80kg the same.could it probably be a recover month?
Robert Frederick · #4 · msg 27
2014-06-05 11:41 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Column E.  It's collapsed into column D. Just drag it out a little and you'll see it.

I put a new one there with the column dragged out if needed. Thanks for pointing that out.
Last edit: 2014-06-05 11:51 UTC by Robert Frederick
Maurizio · #5 · msg 61
2014-06-05 13:36 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Hi, this is for raw or geared lifters?
BirkirkaraBarbell · #6 · msg 93
2014-06-05 15:38 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
We previously were presented with a 29-30-31-32 model which some described as a Preparation (29), Accumulation (30), Transmutation (31), Realisation/Peaking (32) scenario.  In fact a number of lifters described 32 as too much of too little when performing it after 8 weeks of moderate training (eg. 29-37-32 or 37-37-32).  However it made sense to be performed at the end of 16 weeks of work, especially after the high volume/moderate intensity 30 and medium volume/medium to high intensity 31. 
However we are now presented with a model which suggests that 30 and 31 produce the same result and are solely interchangeable according to the bodyweight of the lifter and that the cycle should be 12 weeks long rather than 16.  Also the peaking cycle remains a four weeker, whether the whole cycle is 12 or 16 weeks long.
I understand that coaches learn and gain experience, and learn what works best overtime.  Less warm up sets is one of the changes from the original templates to the present day ones.
can anybody who is in touch with the man himself explain the concept behind these 12 and 16 week model changes?
letslift · #7 · msg 94
2014-06-05 15:47 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
I tried to download the file, but it wouldn't open at all. The file size seems way too small (only about 7kb) as well. Did anyone else have any issues?
DRY · #8 · msg 95
2014-06-05 15:52 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: letslift link=topic=15.msg94#msg94 date=1401983243

I tried to download the file, but it wouldn't open at all. The file size seems way too small (only about 7kb) as well. Did anyone else have any issues?

For over 80kg, the file was 116kb and worked perfectly for me.  Are you looking at the under 80?



If a lifter rated CMS wished to perform this 3 cycle program, are there any very simple modifications he should make? 
Last edit: 2014-06-05 15:54 UTC by DRY
Robert Frederick · #9 · msg 102
2014-06-05 16:10 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: letslift link=topic=15.msg94#msg94 date=1401983243

I tried to download the file, but it wouldn't open at all. The file size seems way too small (only about 7kb) as well. Did anyone else have any issues?


Try it again. The file sizes are listed on the download page at ~117kb. Your download must have been interrupted.
Russian Power · #10 · msg 107
2014-06-05 16:40 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Maurizio link=topic=15.msg61#msg61 date=1401975375

Hi, this is for raw or geared lifters?

for both
you can find information how to work with equip here (items 10-14)
http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=13.0
letslift · #11 · msg 109
2014-06-05 16:53 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg102#msg102 date=1401984644

Quote from: letslift link=topic=15.msg94#msg94 date=1401983243

I tried to download the file, but it wouldn't open at all. The file size seems way too small (only about 7kb) as well. Did anyone else have any issues?


Try it again. The file sizes are listed on the download page at ~117kb. Your download must have been interrupted.
I was trying to download it on my phone, and it wasn't working right. Tried it again on the computer, and it's all good :).
Maurizio · #12 · msg 114
2014-06-05 18:12 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Russian Power link=topic=15.msg107#msg107 date=1401986446

Quote from: Maurizio link=topic=15.msg61#msg61 date=1401975375

Hi, this is for raw or geared lifters?

for both
you can find information how to work with equip here (items 10-14)
http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=13.0


thanks
Vukasin · #13 · msg 115
2014-06-05 18:16 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
How could I incorporate overhead press (military press) into this program, i believe overhead pressing has much carryover to my bench press... i think it would be best to replace bench press from wednesday with military press, but with which percentages, reps/set scheme?
Bench Polkov · #14 · msg 119
2014-06-05 19:27 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: BirkirkaraBarbell link=topic=15.msg93#msg93 date=1401982733

We previously were presented with a 29-30-31-32 model which some described as a Preparation (29), Accumulation (30), Transmutation (31), Realisation/Peaking (32) scenario.  In fact a number of lifters described 32 as too much of too little when performing it after 8 weeks of moderate training (eg. 29-37-32 or 37-37-32).  However it made sense to be performed at the end of 16 weeks of work, especially after the high volume/moderate intensity 30 and medium volume/medium to high intensity 31. 
However we are now presented with a model which suggests that 30 and 31 produce the same result and are solely interchangeable according to the bodyweight of the lifter and that the cycle should be 12 weeks long rather than 16.  Also the peaking cycle remains a four weeker, whether the whole cycle is 12 or 16 weeks long.
I understand that coaches learn and gain experience, and learn what works best overtime.  Less warm up sets is one of the changes from the original templates to the present day ones.
can anybody who is in touch with the man himself explain the concept behind these 12 and 16 week model changes?


But who told you the original information?
Maurizio · #15 · msg 121
2014-06-05 19:36 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
another question... no row, chin up or pull ups?  ???
Judge_Dread6 · #16 · msg 123
2014-06-05 20:12 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
On the over 80kg sheet for #31 in cell D13 the reps are 2,4,6,7,5,3, all in the same cell. should this just be another set of 5? Did I mess something up?

love the sheets

edit: Found the attached cell coment, white on yellow was hard to read. Maybe make the text black...
Last edit: 2014-06-05 20:39 UTC by Judge_Dread6
Robert Frederick · #17 · msg 131
2014-06-05 23:57 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Judge_Dread6 link=topic=15.msg123#msg123 date=1401999133

On the over 80kg sheet for #31 in cell D13 the reps are 2,4,6,7,5,3, all in the same cell. should this just be another set of 5? Did I mess something up?

love the sheets

edit: Found the attached cell coment, white on yellow was hard to read. Maybe make the text black...


That's a pyramid. 2 reps, rest, 4 reps, rest and so on.
Robert Frederick · #18 · msg 135
2014-06-06 00:36 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: BirkirkaraBarbell link=topic=15.msg93#msg93 date=1401982733

We previously were presented with a 29-30-31-32 model which some described as a Preparation (29), Accumulation (30), Transmutation (31), Realisation/Peaking (32) scenario.  In fact a number of lifters described 32 as too much of too little when performing it after 8 weeks of moderate training (eg. 29-37-32 or 37-37-32).  However it made sense to be performed at the end of 16 weeks of work, especially after the high volume/moderate intensity 30 and medium volume/medium to high intensity 31. 
However we are now presented with a model which suggests that 30 and 31 produce the same result and are solely interchangeable according to the bodyweight of the lifter and that the cycle should be 12 weeks long rather than 16.  Also the peaking cycle remains a four weeker, whether the whole cycle is 12 or 16 weeks long.
I understand that coaches learn and gain experience, and learn what works best overtime.  Less warm up sets is one of the changes from the original templates to the present day ones.
can anybody who is in touch with the man himself explain the concept behind these 12 and 16 week model changes?


Your source of info is suspect. 29, 30, 31, 32, and 37 come from a variety of different sources. They do not constitute a training program, as designed by Sheiko. 37 and 32 came from one book for example and were presented in that book as single examples of a prep and comp period, respectively. Boris intentionally presented only samples and not complete training programs because he didn't want the book to be too long. Somewhere else, someone has given these programs their own interpretation. That's not necessarily bad though. You are supposed to be making them work for you. For example, here you have 2 different programs for different people. Everyone has different needs.
Last edit: 2014-06-06 00:39 UTC by Robert Frederick
PeriodJuice69 · #19 · msg 136
2014-06-06 00:54 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Sheiko mentioned "If you can train 4 times per week, I recommend you do it. It is very good for improving technique."

How would one change the 3 day program into a 4 day program?
Would you simply take some lifts from each of the 3 days and slot them into a 4th day? (Same amount of lifts per week just over 4 days)
Or would you just add a 4th day with extra lifts? (more lifts per week overall)

Additionally, is it recommended to do any GPP on off days other than a recovery swim? (e.g. prowler, running, walking, etc)

Thanks.
Robert Frederick · #20 · msg 137
2014-06-06 03:20 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: TUI10009 link=topic=15.msg136#msg136 date=1402016066

Sheiko mentioned "If you can train 4 times per week, I recommend you do it. It is very good for improving technique."

How would one change the 3 day program into a 4 day program?
Would you simply take some lifts from each of the 3 days and slot them into a 4th day? (Same amount of lifts per week just over 4 days)
Or would you just add a 4th day with extra lifts? (more lifts per week overall)

Additionally, is it recommended to do any GPP on off days other than a recovery swim? (e.g. prowler, running, walking, etc)

Thanks.


The fourth day would be deadlifts and bench. It should be a light day. So you could make that bench something easier like incline benches and dips. The other days would remain the same. Take a look at the four day programming here:

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

Also see the weekly patterns here:

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Notice in table 10 you can keep the same percentage distribution and scale the volume up and down. When adding a fourth day you may want to adjust the overall volume.

Boris recommends rest on rest days. The volume of these programs alone should provide adequate conditioning. (Boris is going to go over these so he may correct me if I'm wrong.)

Robert Frederick · #21 · msg 138
2014-06-06 03:28 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Maurizio link=topic=15.msg121#msg121 date=1401996978

another question... no row, chin up or pull ups?  ???


I'm guessing you are concerned about balance across the shoulders to keep them healthy. From what I've seen a big source of shoulder problems isn't a lack of pulling but instead issues with bench form. That said, you can swap out benches for pulling where it makes sense.
ipsumlorem · #22 · msg 147
2014-06-06 07:38 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Another maybe silly question:

deadlift up to knees - Is it a full competition deadlift with a pause at knee level?

deadlift from boxes - Is it meant as a deficit deadlift or as a deadlift with elevated bar?

I know these questions led to debates in the internet about how they were meant.
Russian Power · #23 · msg 148
2014-06-06 07:58 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: ipsumlorem link=topic=15.msg147#msg147 date=1402040319

Another maybe silly question:

deadlift up to knees - Is it a full competition deadlift with a pause at knee level?

deadlift from boxes - Is it meant as a deficit deadlift or as a deadlift with elevated bar?

I know these questions led to debates in the internet about how they were meant.

There are few translations of these exercises from Russian into English. This is because Sheiko's programs were translated by different people at different times.
Deadlift up to knees = deadlift to knees. It is not full movement. You just pull to knees, pause for 1-2 sec and put the barbell down.
Deadlift from boxes = deadlift off boxes/blocks. The barbell is higher than feet. Bar can be lower or higher than knees.
Pimptasty · #24 · msg 172
2014-06-06 12:51 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
I know it completely butchers the program, but I've always had success by switching Wednesday's benching with clean and strict press.
Roadblock · #25 · msg 175
2014-06-06 13:04 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg137#msg137 date=1402024825

Quote from: TUI10009 link=topic=15.msg136#msg136 date=1402016066

Sheiko mentioned "If you can train 4 times per week, I recommend you do it. It is very good for improving technique."

How would one change the 3 day program into a 4 day program?
Would you simply take some lifts from each of the 3 days and slot them into a 4th day? (Same amount of lifts per week just over 4 days)
Or would you just add a 4th day with extra lifts? (more lifts per week overall)

Additionally, is it recommended to do any GPP on off days other than a recovery swim? (e.g. prowler, running, walking, etc)

Thanks.


The fourth day would be deadlifts and bench. It should be a light day. So you could make that bench something easier like incline benches and dips. The other days would remain the same. Take a look at the four day programming here:

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

Also see the weekly patterns here:

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Notice in table 10 you can keep the same percentage distribution and scale the volume up and down. When adding a fourth day you may want to adjust the overall volume.

Boris recommends rest on rest days. The volume of these programs alone should provide adequate conditioning. (Boris is going to go over these so he may correct me if I'm wrong.)


EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks a lot for your help and for starting this forum.

RB
devilyenko · #26 · msg 187
2014-06-06 14:54 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
If I wanted to change the second of the same exercise, let's say squats to pause squats for the 2nd squat movement, how would I adjust the intensity and volume to account for the new movement? i.e. Pause squats relatively use less weight than regular squats making the weekly volume, intensity, and ave. Weight lifted less.

Thoughts?

Bench Polkov · #27 · msg 191
2014-06-06 15:43 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: devilyenko link=topic=15.msg187#msg187 date=1402066488

If I wanted to change the second of the same exercise, let's say squats to pause squats for the 2nd squat movement, how would I adjust the intensity and volume to account for the new movement? i.e. Pause squats relatively use less weight than regular squats making the weekly volume, intensity, and ave. Weight lifted less.

Thoughts?


I think this would differ depending on individual strengths but I would suggest at 10% weight drop to start off with. Leave the volume the same. The weight might be less but the comparative intensity would be similar due to it being a harder lift.
BuccioniPL · #28 · msg 206
2014-06-06 19:46 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Maurizio link=topic=15.msg121#msg121 date=1401996978

another question... no row, chin up or pull ups?  ???


Assistance depends on your weak points and it must be inserted according to that. You can do chin up when you train lat muscles. You can also insert rows. Normally assistance should be in a 4-8 reps range with a good buffer. Execution must be slow without jerking, main aim is to "assist" muscles.
devilyenko · #29 · msg 217
2014-06-07 02:35 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Bench Polkov link=topic=15.msg191#msg191 date=1402069393

Quote from: devilyenko link=topic=15.msg187#msg187 date=1402066488

If I wanted to change the second of the same exercise, let's say squats to pause squats for the 2nd squat movement, how would I adjust the intensity and volume to account for the new movement? i.e. Pause squats relatively use less weight than regular squats making the weekly volume, intensity, and ave. Weight lifted less.

Thoughts?


I think this would differ depending on individual strengths but I would suggest at 10% weight drop to start off with. Leave the volume the same. The weight might be less but the comparative intensity would be similar due to it being a harder lift.


What if I have established my 1RM to the exercise that I am going to sub in? Sounds okay to just plug it in right?

Robert Frederick · #30 · msg 222
2014-06-07 05:42 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
That's a good question. There are a lot of factors to consider. I'll make sure Boris sees this.
Admin · #31 · msg 232
2014-06-07 09:29 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
If you want to change competition squat to pause squat (pause at the bottom) and save number of lifts and reps you should decrease intensity by 10% if it was written in the program 80%. If 75%, then decrease by 5%.
Robert Frederick · #32 · msg 235
2014-06-07 09:53 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Ah okay. I understand why to do it this way now. Lower and higher intensity lifts scale differently. Let's take a look at an example. Suppose you squat 100kg and pause squat 90kg.

                  Squat    w/Pause    -5/10% method
100%        100kg      90kg           
80%            80kg        72kg          70kg
75%            75kg        67.5kg        70kg   

So you wind up not doing any work sets below 70% of your max squat.
Tyrwing · #33 · msg 238
2014-06-07 10:24 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Regarding the squat ladders on the same percentage (Ex: W.1 #31), if I am not mistaken, I think I have read somewhere that there is a specific rest-time for those sets?

Something along the lines of 1-1-1-2-2-2min between the sets.
devilyenko · #34 · msg 243
2014-06-07 12:19 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg235#msg235 date=1402134830

Ah okay. I understand why to do it this way now. Lower and higher intensity lifts scale differently. Let's take a look at an example. Suppose you squat 100kg and pause squat 90kg.

                  Squat    w/Pause    -5/10% method
100%        100kg      90kg           
80%            80kg        72kg          70kg
75%            75kg        67.5kg        70kg   

So you wind up not doing any work sets below 70% of your max squat.


Thank you Boris and Robert.

On another note, I have personally found that I would be better suited to doing full deadlift variations 100% of the time. Whatever I can get off the ground, I lock out 99% of the time in competition. Instead of doing block/rack pulls, would I be okay to apply the -5/10% and do competition deads instead? i.e -10% if 90%, -5% if 85%

                  Rack Pulls  Reg Deads  -10/5% method
100%        100kg      90kg           
90%            90kg        81kg          80kg
85%            85kg        76.5kg        80kg

This time I'm never going below 80% off my max. However, I'm not so sure if this is too taxing since even though block pull use higher weight, they are relatively "easier."  Maybe I should use -15/10% instead?

Thank you in advance.
Pimptasty · #35 · msg 246
2014-06-07 14:35 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Has Boris ever done what he does with DLs and break either bench or squat down into two separate movements like with the DLs to knees and rack pulls?

Robert Frederick · #36 · msg 247
2014-06-07 15:11 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: devilyenko link=topic=15.msg243#msg243 date=1402143566

Thank you Boris and Robert.

On another note, I have personally found that I would be better suited to doing full deadlift variations 100% of the time. Whatever I can get off the ground, I lock out 99% of the time in competition. Instead of doing block/rack pulls, would I be okay to apply the -5/10% and do competition deads instead? i.e -10% if 90%, -5% if 85%

                  Rack Pulls  Reg Deads  -10/5% method
100%        100kg      90kg           
90%            90kg        81kg          80kg
85%            85kg        76.5kg        80kg

This time I'm never going below 80% off my max. However, I'm not so sure if this is too taxing since even though block pull use higher weight, they are relatively "easier."  Maybe I should use -15/10% instead?

Thank you in advance.


You could follow one of these schemes instead (but not the extra stress versions of bench and squat):

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=6.0

The 5/10% method is more suitable for moving from the competition lifts to variations and not the other way around. Suppose you move from the bench to board press for example. Instead of 80-85% sets you could add 10% or 5% and wind up doing board presses with 90% of your max bench. 
Robert Frederick · #37 · msg 248
2014-06-07 15:41 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Pimptasty link=topic=15.msg246#msg246 date=1402151723

Has Boris ever done what he does with DLs and break either bench or squat down into two separate movements like with the DLs to knees and rack pulls?


I think one of the reasons to break up the lift, besides perfecting simpler derivatives one at a time, is to lower the overall stress from deadlifting twice a session.
BuccioniPL · #38 · msg 260
2014-06-07 20:50 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg248#msg248 date=1402155717

Quote from: Pimptasty link=topic=15.msg246#msg246 date=1402151723

Has Boris ever done what he does with DLs and break either bench or squat down into two separate movements like with the DLs to knees and rack pulls?


I think one of the reasons to break up the lift, besides perfecting simpler derivatives one at a time, is to lower the overall stress from deadlifting twice a session.


Agree.
Tyrwing · #39 · msg 284
2014-06-08 13:01 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Tyrwing link=topic=15.msg238#msg238 date=1402136694

Regarding the squat ladders on the same percentage (Ex: W.1 #31), if I am not mistaken, I think I have read somewhere that there is a specific rest-time for those sets?

Something along the lines of 1-1-1-2-2-2min between the sets.


Bump?
Robert Frederick · #40 · msg 287
2014-06-08 14:10 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
I'm going to let Boris answer this one. It's in his inbox.
Admin · #41 · msg 317
2014-06-09 05:34 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
The comment about rest periods is not mine. I did not see them in the spreadsheet.

It is absolutely clear that the more reps you do the more rest you will need. For those sets no more than 5-6 minutes. If longer you muscles will get cold and you increase the chance of injury. If you lift 90% and up (not in a pyramid) you can rest 8-10 minutes.
dimitris · #42 · msg 324
2014-06-09 07:36 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
I think the misconception was caused due to a note in the original word file from the idris site. The note in Russian was
Quote

на 70% делается семь подходов, сначало в каждом подходе прибавляете количество раз, после 8 раз, убавляюте.

It was loosely (badly?) translated and everybody believed that you must take small rests until the set with 8 reps.
Tyrwing · #43 · msg 330
2014-06-09 08:54 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Boris Sheiko link=topic=15.msg317#msg317 date=1402292098

The comment about rest periods is not mine. I did not see them in the spreadsheet.

It is absolutely clear that the more reps you do the more rest you will need. For those sets no more than 5-6 minutes. If longer you muscles will get cold and you increase the chance of injury. If you lift 90% and up (not in a pyramid) you can rest 8-10 minutes.


That clears it our, thanks coach!
DRY · #44 · msg 396
2014-06-10 13:40 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg287#msg287 date=1402236658

I'm going to let Boris answer this one. It's in his inbox.


Robert do you have any basic recommendations to change this cycle to focus more on bringing up the deadlift?  I feel that my squat makes progress regardless of what I do but my deadlift ruins my chances of being competitive.  256 sq/250 deadlift raw and 330sq/262.5 deadlift in equipment.  I would really like to focus on my deadlift for the next 6 months or so but no training of my own design has worked
Robert Frederick · #45 · msg 397
2014-06-10 13:44 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: DRY link=topic=15.msg396#msg396 date=1402407602

Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg287#msg287 date=1402236658

I'm going to let Boris answer this one. It's in his inbox.


Robert do you have any basic recommendations to change this cycle to focus more on bringing up the deadlift?  I feel that my squat makes progress regardless of what I do but my deadlift ruins my chances of being competitive.  256 sq/250 deadlift raw and 330sq/262.5 deadlift in equipment.  I would really like to focus on my deadlift for the next 6 months or so but no training of my own design has worked


What have you tried? Lets get that out of the way first.
DRY · #46 · msg 398
2014-06-10 13:53 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote


What have you tried? Lets get that out of the way first.

The most commonly approach I have is to do some work with the competition lift on Wednesday (say on average, 5 sets of 3 with 72.5%) then do a second lift which would be either pause at knee, against light bands, or off of blocks.  This would usually be another 15 total reps divided up based on the exercise.  For against bands, it might be 3 sets of 5 with 66% of max bar weight.  Then a 3rd exercise that is very light such as stiff leg deadlift with 100kg. 

Lately I have tried to add in more competition deadlifts on Fridays, and have tried both doing between 5 and 10 singles with ~90% or doing as light as 15 total reps at under 70%. 

I pull sumo.  Here is my best successful competition deadlift
http://youtu.be/Ktsbk0_P8p0?t=2m6s
Here is my most recent competition deadlifts
http://youtu.be/SLBQl8tyNW8?t=3m16s

I know I am not built well to deadlift, short arms and narrow hips, but I feel as though nobody is built so poorly that they squat 330 and can only pull 262.5.  I have to be able to get upto at least 275 without excuses
Robert Frederick · #47 · msg 402
2014-06-10 14:44 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
I think the single best thing to do would be to add another day and move your Friday deadlifts to Saturday if that's possible. Are you doing both squats and deadlifts on Friday? You've also got a long way to lift the bar until it reaches your knees. Getting really strong in the first half probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it were me I'd try some deficit deadlifts up to the knees, pauses at and below the knees, deadlifts with chains, and deadlifts from below the knees with slow eccentrics. I'd do those at around ~80%, whatever gives you decent bar speed. These will still feel like more that 80% anyway but the absolute stress will be lower. That might let you do more and recover from it better than doing full deadlifts at 90%.
DRY · #48 · msg 404
2014-06-10 14:57 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg402#msg402 date=1402411457

I think the single best thing to do would be to add another day and move your Friday deadlifts to Saturday if that's possible. Are you doing both squats and deadlifts on Friday? You've also got a long way to lift the bar until it reaches your knees. Getting really strong in the first half probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it were me I'd try some deficit deadlifts up to the knees, pauses at and below the knees, deadlifts with chains, and deadlifts from below the knees with slow eccentrics. I'd do those at around ~80%, whatever gives you decent bar speed. These will still feel like more that 80% anyway but the absolute stress will be lower. That might let you do more and recover from it better than doing full deadlifts at 90%.
Currently yes they are the same day.  I have a smaller squatting load on Fridays because of this.  I do all 3 in competition order on Fridays.  I could move it to Saturday but being married and the gym doesn't open until 11am makes it inconvenient.  I think that is the next logical step though.  After moving in a few weeks hopefully my situation will be easier.  I'll give these exercises a shot.  I will say that it is very difficult for me to do deficit deadlifts.  I have big issues doing 3 reps with 70%, and am fairly sure I would fail 80%.  My back position just has to be too bad in order to get down to the bar.  Thanks for your help!
Robert Frederick · #49 · msg 405
2014-06-10 15:12 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Scratch the deficit deadlift if it puts you in a bad position. That would probably hurt more than help.
DRY · #50 · msg 407
2014-06-10 15:24 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg405#msg405 date=1402413123

Scratch the deficit deadlift if it puts you in a bad position. That would probably hurt more than help.
What would be best to replace it with?  Most focus on the top half (blocks, bands, chains).  Pausing at the knee and slower deadlifts?
Robert Frederick · #51 · msg 410
2014-06-10 16:24 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Check out Belyaev's deadlift here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnO_sS0I374

It's almost at his knees just after he breaks it off the floor and his legs are already in a powerful position. You've got about 4 more inches to pull until you get into that position. So getting stronger in this range should help. You could do a 2 second pause below the knees (maybe just below the top of your socks), before continuing up. Maybe do this one first then some slow eccentrics off blocks for the second round of deadlifts. Also, I like to do more ~70% stuff one week and more ~80% stuff the next week. 
DRY · #52 · msg 412
2014-06-10 17:14 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg410#msg410 date=1402417475

Check out Belyaev's deadlift here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnO_sS0I374

It's almost at his knees just after he breaks it off the floor and his legs are already in a powerful position. You've got about 4 more inches to pull until you get into that position. So getting stronger in this range should help. You could do a 2 second pause below the knees (maybe just below the top of your socks), before continuing up. Maybe do this one first then some slow eccentrics off blocks for the second round of deadlifts. Also, I like to do more ~70% stuff one week and more ~80% stuff the next week.
Is there any way to fix this?  Or is it just the length of my bones?
FreakGoHome · #53 · msg 421
2014-06-11 02:29 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Dave, looking at your video it strike me that your knees are locking out very late in the lift, as if you are finishing the lift with your legs. Looking at the video Robert posted of Belyaev's lift you can see he locks his knees before he is fully upright. He finishes the lift not by locking his knees but by thrusting his hips.

You're familiar with Alex's channel of course but this video demonstrate the knees and hips locking as two distinct movements well, particularly Hsieh and Danilov.

Thoughts?
Last edit: 2014-06-11 02:35 UTC by FreakGoHome
DRY · #54 · msg 438
2014-06-11 13:21 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: FreakGoHome link=topic=15.msg421#msg421 date=1402453787

Dave, looking at your video it strike me that your knees are locking out very late in the lift, as if you are finishing the lift with your legs. Looking at the video Robert posted of Belyaev's lift you can see he locks his knees before he is fully upright. He finishes the lift not by locking his knees but by thrusting his hips.

You're familiar with Alex's channel of course but this video demonstrate the knees and hips locking as two distinct movements well, particularly Hsieh and Danilov.

Thoughts?
I have tried working on that lately.  It seems to me that I can't really start forcing my knees more until the bar passes them, and I am 90% locked out at that time anyways though.  I have been trying however to emulate Pozdeev's head position and knee/back timing lately
Robert Frederick · #55 · msg 444
2014-06-11 15:14 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Quote from: DRY link=topic=15.msg412#msg412 date=1402420498

Is there any way to fix this?  Or is it just the length of my bones?


Longer bones. Standing wide with your knees turned out brings your hips closer to your knees (when viewed from the side) and simulates a shorter femur. So there's that. As for below your knees, your can try to compensate by getting stronger specifically in that range. Pauses will help that. Also the chains should help you accelerate the bar. Combining a little extra strength at the bottom with acceleration should get that bar up there.
BirkirkaraBarbell · #56 · msg 448
2014-06-11 20:38 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
Thanks for your kind reply Robert
Quote from: Robert Frederick link=topic=15.msg135#msg135 date=1402014991

Quote from: BirkirkaraBarbell link=topic=15.msg93#msg93 date=1401982733

We previously were presented with a 29-30-31-32 model which some described as a Preparation (29), Accumulation (30), Transmutation (31), Realisation/Peaking (32) scenario.  In fact a number of lifters described 32 as too much of too little when performing it after 8 weeks of moderate training (eg. 29-37-32 or 37-37-32).  However it made sense to be performed at the end of 16 weeks of work, especially after the high volume/moderate intensity 30 and medium volume/medium to high intensity 31. 
However we are now presented with a model which suggests that 30 and 31 produce the same result and are solely interchangeable according to the bodyweight of the lifter and that the cycle should be 12 weeks long rather than 16.  Also the peaking cycle remains a four weeker, whether the whole cycle is 12 or 16 weeks long.
I understand that coaches learn and gain experience, and learn what works best overtime.  Less warm up sets is one of the changes from the original templates to the present day ones.
can anybody who is in touch with the man himself explain the concept behind these 12 and 16 week model changes?


Your source of info is suspect. 29, 30, 31, 32, and 37 come from a variety of different sources. They do not constitute a training program, as designed by Sheiko. 37 and 32 came from one book for example and were presented in that book as single examples of a prep and comp period, respectively. Boris intentionally presented only samples and not complete training programs because he didn't want the book to be too long. Somewhere else, someone has given these programs their own interpretation. That's not necessarily bad though. You are supposed to be making them work for you. For example, here you have 2 different programs for different people. Everyone has different needs.
Admin · #57 · msg 620
2014-06-12 09:08 UTC
Re: 3 Day Program
For rest periods, if you do - Squat 50% 5х1set, 60% 5х1set, 70% (2+4+6+8+7+5+3) reps

I recommend for 70% the following:
2reps - rest 3min,
4reps - rest 3min,
6reps- rest 5min,
8reps- rest 5-6min,
7reps- rest 5-6min,
5reps- rest 5-6 min,
3reps- rest 3-4 min.

Do not forget that the heavier you are the longer recovery you need.